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Yes, no (built-in) AI is now a feature

blog.documentfoundation.org/bl…

#LibreOffice #Technology

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Donnerstag, 3. September 2026, 16:08)
Als Antwort auf wobweger

@wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

It's still coded using AI, same as what Debian just decided to do.

github.com/LibreOffice/core/co…

github.com/LibreOffice/core/co…

github.com/LibreOffice/core/co…

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Donnerstag, 3. September 2026, 15:59)
Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig Surveys and studies of coders say the opposite:

Generative AI is good at producing text that resembles code and may compile, but the code is unreliable and takes as much work to debug as it would to write it from scratch.

A lot of coders have your experience. Until they actually look at the code it produces.

Als Antwort auf Dr. Angus Andrea Grieve-Smith

@grvsmth furthermore, many studies have shown that llm users perceive themselves to be more productive than they are, or even perceive productivity gains when instead their productivity is worsened

this of course doesn't acknowledge all the other consequences of llm usage to the environment, cognition, mental health, communities both local and abroad, workers rights, creators rights, global internet infrastructure, etc...

@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @libreoffice @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf Nick

@internic @grvsmth hm, actually my original understanding was from this study, i think:

metr.org/blog/2025-07-10-early…

but the more recent study suggest a possible improvement, though they couldn't recruit enough developers for a confident analysis:

metr.org/blog/2026-02-24-uplif…

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik

If AI is producing code of higher quality than what you can write, then that doesn't speak highly of AI; it speaks poorly of you.

As a professional programmer with 30+ years experience, I need tools that work correctly every time. AI only sometimes works correctly, and that's not good enough. I have left many tools behind because they proved unreliable, and this is one of them.

@wobweger @libreoffice @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik

I have, on several occasions.

One that stands out is when I asked a bot (I think Claude Haiku) a question about a programming topic I'm not entirely familiar with. It gave me 10 answers, 4 of which were obviously wrong based on the self-contained test case I presented it with, and 4 more of which immediately proved wrong upon cursory testing.

It was obvious that the bot was just making s**t up and had no idea what it was talking about.

@grvsmth @wobweger @libreoffice @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@worik

2 of the answers were correct, so at least it wasn't a complete waste of my time.

But if I got 2 out of 10 questions wrong on a test at school, I wouldn't have been proclaimed a star pupil that everyone else has to keep up with. I'd have gotten an F, and then I'd have gotten a stern talking-to by my parents.

@grvsmth @wobweger @libreoffice @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik

Well, I just looked over the lengthy transcripts of the chats I had with two different bots on the topic (Mistral and GPT-5.4-mini, as it turns out), and I *was* going to go over them and redact them…

…but then it occurred to me that you're probably just going to have your bot “summarize” the conversations anyway…

…in which case this is a waste of my time, so I'm not going to bother.

@grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 21:09)
Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@worik

I have, however, gone ahead and saved the transcripts, for my own future amusement and/or to bring receipts to someone who's actually willing to read them. So thanks for reminding me to do that. 👍

@grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 21:10)
Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@worik @grvsmth @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig okay it doesn't fucking matter because everyone here sucks but like. Just for future refutations you might get:

You did sort of basically use the most error prone, cheapest, least capable models. Those models mostly just are fancy text substitution. Good for maybe a context sensitive idk swap of pronouns but that's about it.

I think when you're arguing against something strongly it's important to know exactly what it is behind the argument you're making. This doesn't mean you have to use them but a false equivalency doesn't help anything either.

Also, elitism doesn't suddenly become cool and okay when LLMs are in the picture.

Take my input or don't but it's exceptionally frustrating to see the entire conversation on the topic dominated by every party just making shit up it feels like being gaslit

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig I'm working at an "AI-pilled" software company and the amount of AI usage is inversely correlated with quality.
The devs using it the most are consistently the ones pushing the lowest quality code with the highest number of critical issues. They are also easily the worst engineers overall and I'm watching their skills deteriorate further and further.
Besides, due to token spend they cost us as much as a mamager position.
Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @wobweger @moskitokoenig

> One that stands out is when I asked a bot (I think Claude Haiku) a question about a programming topic I'm not entirely familiar with. It gave me 10 answers, 4 of which were obviously wrong based on the self-contained test case I presented it

I am curious.

May I have the question? I can try it out here

Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org I used the one (DeepSeek) at my workplace. While the topic in question (nuances of mocking private/static/final/whatever methods and fields in the class for test) was outside of my expertise — I just read the official documentation for Junit 5, Mockito 5, etc and wrote not so much tests, as it should be — the bot's output was helpful.

Since English is not my primary language, I missed some nuances in the docs, wrote wrong code and, looks like because these mistakes were common for programmers around the globe, the chatbot output contained some necessary for me clues.

But ... when it's time for my main field of expertise or time to dig in some Lovecraftian horrors — the DeepSeek unsurprisingly became unhelpful, unusable and misleading. At the best case it's output just reminds me about Captain Obvious — nothing which I wouldn't tried or knew eons ago 🙂

@worik@mastodon.social @grvsmth@lingo.lol @wobweger@mstdn.social @libreoffice@fosstodon.org @moskitokoenig@dizl.de

Als Antwort auf Adrien Plazas

@KekunPlazas

Indeed. Because we've observed what happens to other people who are shot with a gun.

Some people, however, seem incapable of learning from the misfortunes of others. Not sure why, but it's terribly harmful to them and to society as a whole.

@worik @wobweger @libreoffice @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @grvsmth @moskitokoenig
from time to time, I visit #slop fan accounts,
they all have below 3 digit followers,
that much their promotion a insane hype cycle is valued here

take the hint and consider switching platform

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig 🤣🤣🤣

How can the: "here is the stochastic average of the training data" be of better quality?
That is not how LLMs work.

The code quality is shit, especially without rigorous human supervision.

Als Antwort auf Dirk Willrodt

@Garonenur @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

I am speaking from experience, not theory

It is not as simple as "LLMs write better code". But from now on the best code will be aided by LLMs in its construction. That is true now

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig not if we burn down every fucking fascist data center.
And no, people using LLMs are deteriorating in their skills so fast, overall code quality (which was shit anyway to begin with) will only go down.
Als Antwort auf Dr. Angus Andrea Grieve-Smith

@grvsmth @Garonenur @argv_minus_one @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Golly!

What do you expect when communicating?

It is a shame if you cannot tolerate disagreement

I have no problem with your opinions and POV, I disagree with some of it

For bubbles of agreement I would have stayed on Facebook!

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik

What you said was a factual assertion, not an opinion. One that is not supported by available evidence.

Nor is it supported even by theory. LLMs work by making predictions based on statistical analysis of what humans have previously done. Therefore they cannot surpass even the average human, let alone the best.

Which is why I say your admiration of LLMs speaks not highly of them, but poorly of you. It proves that you're below average.

@grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@worik

And your assertion was indeed quite grandiose.

“From now on the best code will be aided by LLMs in its construction. That is true now.” That's literally what you said. Unadulterated arrogance, supported only by vague claims of professional experience that I'm fairly sure you don't actually have (because if you did, you'd have brought receipts).

Perhaps that sort of behavior was welcome on Facebook, but you'll find little love for it here.

@grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@argv_minus_one @grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Argumentum ad hominem ignored

I asserted that working on code is what (one thing) LLMs are good for.

I have been watching closely as LLMs and the harnesses have developed and they have astounded me.

There is little useful theory. That "text completion" could do all this is very surprising and I know of no theory to explain it

youtu.be/_MwMLPmMccs?si=RSTP2T… is a short talk by Greg Kroah-Hartman you may find helpful.

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik

Your being astounded does not mean LLMs have surpassed humans, only that they've surpassed you.

Anyway, Greg K-H is talking about using LLMs to find bugs, like a static analyzer. That's grand and all, but you're talking about vibe code, and that's not what he's talking about.

@grvsmth @Garonenur @wobweger @moskitokoenig

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 20:36)
Als Antwort auf Dirk Willrodt

@Garonenur @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

Your comment about their output being shit is two years out of date

These days the code they produce is often very good.

Times are changing, and the development since 2022 has been astounding

The last nine months alone has seen huge advances.

Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik

More like two days. I frequently get sent slop by my coworkers.

No, it isn't. Not even remotely.

Yes, they are…in that we are speeding into an apocalypse of automated incompetence and consequent project collapse. I now fear deeply for the future, because of people like you.

The last nine months have been catastrophic.

@Garonenur @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 20:20)
Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig I have to read and review the code right today.
And it sucks.
It reuses old fashioned paradigms, because the old shit is more prevalent in the training data.
AND the users of those LLMs all start to become lazy and just believe what hallucinations the machine dishes them.
Code quality was terrible before, it will only go down now.
Als Antwort auf Worik

@worik @argv_minus_one @wobweger @grvsmth @moskitokoenig That is not what generative AI is useful for.

It is very good at destroying people, many social contracts, our ability to think, our ability to create, our resources, our environment, all while creating absolute crape no one wants and shoving it to everybody's face, surrendering ourselves to fascist tech giants, and allowing plenty of fascist to be smug about it.

That is my experience.

Als Antwort auf Cosmin

@cosmin @argv_minus_one Ah, another high-quality Mastodon discussion. Again: No core developers use LLMs. We rely on contributions from the wider community and don't explicitly list tools people can't use – but we do require people disclose when they use LLMs and generally discourage the practice. We carefully review submissions by contributors to make sure the code quality is good and that the patch author understands their own code. LLMs are prohibited for students. That is not "slop".
Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

@cosmin @argv_minus_one The anti AI dogma is getting tiresome. Have you all jumped ship from Linux yet? There are good developers who use LLMs.they still produce code that they understand and can debug, and in many cases this approach eliminates bugs more rapidly. But everyone is still desperate to die on their hill.
Have your opinions, share them even. Just check your tone. Don't like the project or code for whatever reason, don't use it. The "anything AI touches is slop" camp seem desperate for an argument and unwilling to compromise.
Als Antwort auf 𝐩fᵣ

@pfr

If I wasn't in constant crisis mode at both home and work, then yeah, I'd be looking to make an exit from Linux. I hope things quiet down around here soon, before Linux goes completely to hell.

And yeah, “compromise” is right. With bots inserting code willy-nilly into Linux and no meaningful human code review, there's nothing stopping those bots from inserting vulnerabilities into the software I rely on for my security and safety.

Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

i'm aware the blog post goes in more depth, but i still believe that naming it "no AI is now a feature?" despite *knowing it has AI-generated code* is still incredibly fucking misleading. i was left under a false impression from what people have told me, and now i just know not to trust your word.

also hmm, yes, very professional of you, i'm sure this reply was looked at by multiple people and it wasn't at all reactionary

Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

@cosmin @argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org that is slop, because thats my definition. generative ai has no place in open source projects: there are no productivity imperatives whatsoever. I will not repeat the usual moral and environnemental arguments, you know them. You, accepting genai contributions, is a betrayal. It would be very simple for you to refuse them but you prefer the usual "no politics" stance. Please grow a spine, the entire planet relies on you to avoid microsoft monopoly.
Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

@argv_minus_one without passing any judgment on LO cos idk their internal policy;

that commit message is cute, it's like a snapshot of my colleagues six mo ago when they still bothered to read anything it extruded

@wobweger @libreoffice @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

Als Antwort auf Luna Lactea

@jackemled

Not as far as I know. LibreOffice was the go-to FOSS office suite that everybody abandoned everything else for.

codeberg.org/ethical-foss/ai-f…

We thought we had a wholesome non-profit community here. That…does not seem to have actually been the case…

@wobweger @libreoffice @grvsmth @moskitokoenig

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Montag, 26. Oktober 2026, 23:53)
Als Antwort auf argv[-1]

Calligra technically exists but it's honestly complete dogshit. In terms of non-slopped up office suites I'm fairly certain that's it which is not encouraging because, like, Calligra is awful. Apache OpenOffice, even if it wasn't also slopped up, is dead for all intents and purposes. Euro-Office is a legally dubious and web-only fork of OnlyOffice. Collabora is just LibreOffice but reheated. I've literally never even heard of LaSuite Office or CryptPad until seeing this list and apparently they're also slopped up and even if they weren't they're also web-only I think?
Als Antwort auf pri

@pri Things are starting to happen 😉 LibreOffice has around 200 million users (we estimate – of course we don't track people). The Austrian Military has moved 16,000 PCs from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice. Similar things are happening in Germany and Denmark. And quietly in many organisations and companies around the world...
@pri
Als Antwort auf Jeff MacKinnon

@Jeff None of the core developers use them. We rely on contributions from the wider community and don't explicitly list tools people can and can't use – but we do require people disclose when they use LLMs and generally discourage the practice. We carefully review submissions by contributors to make sure the code quality is good and that the patch author understands their own code. LLMs are prohibited for students and other mentored work.
Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

@Jeff The quality of the #LLM generated code is a small part of the problem. There are much important environmental and human rights issues associated to genAI / Big tech that we, the FreeSoftware community, can not ignore. We count on LibreOffice to keep making a difference in our society. Please, don't let us down.
Als Antwort auf ranlvor

@ranlvor Lots of things fall under the "AI" umbrella.

We've had espeak for text to speech on Linux for decades. It's still not very good. Now we have PocketTTS, a 200 MB "AI" model you can run on an old laptop which does a _magnitudes_ better job changing text into speech.

Would it really be such horrible if LibreOffice used small specific local "AI" models where it makes sense because it's such "AI"?

Als Antwort auf 윤채경 (Yoon Chae-kyung)

@chaekyung If its a LLM I do not want it. Ever. For whatever reason. And if it downloads 200MB of stuff I do not want to use automatically, I do not want it either.

I'd be ok if a optional extension provides TTS-Services, but it should not enable itself on its own. And it should not be part of the LibreOffice Core.

This is LibreOffice, not a Microsoft Product, it should not install things on its own. It should not decide on itself to burn CPU-Time to do things the user did not ask for (looking at you, Firefox „Tab group suggestions“)

Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

I understand that their are issues at Libreoffice, with result that many developers goto #Collabora Office.
So if you want to keep the development, then i understand that Callabora Office (Classic) is better solution then LibreOffice (because the Libre is gone by matter of speaking)
Collabora Office- collaboraonline.com/collabora-…
Collabora Office Classic- collaboraonline.com/collabora-…

OpenOffice become LibreOffice become CollaboraOffice. 👍

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 12:13)
Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

It would be wise to look at what's marketed as "AI" on a per case/feature basic.

LibreTranslate really is extremely useful. It's free, runs locally and supports translating between a ton of languages.

A between most languages translation feature would be useful in a office suite, and it doesn't really matter if it's done by a small local "AI" model or not. Text to speech is another feature that comes to mind.

Als Antwort auf φαггoт

@parrot I like making words myself, but I have questions.

You mention it is an acronym. What is an acronym for?

When you present a new word, you need to very clear from the getgo what the origin of the word is, what images it leans upon, what meaning you attribute to it. If you don't do this, then the word is going to end up being superficial.

Als Antwort auf 💭drauming yver motmæle🗣️

@parrot I would drop the part of whether the word is an acronym, retronym.

Do not bring up widespread adoption, future will reveal itself anyways.

Should we be clear what we mean by AI? No, let people judge by themselves what they consider AI, let language live it's life.

Using an existing word? Or using loanwords? Good question, but this just reveals hesitation about your word. You should not hesitate if you are serious.

The text oozes with hesitation. Not a good sign.

Als Antwort auf 💭drauming yver motmæle🗣️

@parrot
I love that you are chalking the word, spending time on making the text and make a webpage, this shows some committment.

You would benefit a lot from revealing the meaning, the soul, the nature of the word as early as possible. Then show how we can use this word in everyday contexts. Can you think of a meaningful sentence that would showcase the force of the word?

Paint the word for us. Make sure it is not abstract, but something that feels real.

Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

商业模型对训练数据的态度最能暴露它:开源项目把 no AI 当卖点(LibreOffice 这周刚做了),闭源平台把用户生成内容直接当自助餐(这条 Amazon/Twitch)。一条线划在「我不放 AI 进去」,另一条划在「用户产了什么我就拿什么」。这两件事在同一周发生,挺说明问题。
Unbekannter Ursprungsbeitrag

@billyjoebowers I'm confused. I read their post and it implies there is no AI code in LibreOffice currently, but users can choose to install third party extensions that might interact with LLMs.

Edit: oh, I see what you mean.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 02:08)
Als Antwort auf Radomír Žemlička

@Razemix I have no idea; I don't use office suites. However, various tools such as email summarization, checking of facts in documents (not typos), recommended next steps for documents within a company's workflow etc. it will become a standard part of office workflows, because they can make work more efficient.
Als Antwort auf Michal Špondr

@michal But even if it did (which I highly doubt), does it need to be built-in? Because that's what the original post is about. No one is stopping you from making an extension with the desired functionality and deploying it company-wise.
Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 07:49)
Als Antwort auf Michal Špondr

@michal Where do you take this data from? Almost every product I know of that implemented some sort of LLM into it enabled it by default (and in the best case scenario lets you turn it off). That doesn't tell you anything about whether people use it, let alone whether they wanted the feature in the first place.
Als Antwort auf Radomír Žemlička

@Razemix @michal We have had Google Docs full of AI at work for months and frankly the only useful feature I've found is help with Sheets formulas. I wanted to use it for presentation templates, but it was rather sour experience.
Hint: all of those features came enabled by default, no one asked me as a user.
Als Antwort auf Jiří Eischmann

@Razemix @michal BTW it doesn't stop to amaze me how terrible web Gemini that powers all this is. It bullshits (aka hallucinates) all the time.

The other day I wanted it to help me set up OpenShell. It gave me made-up commands one after another. When I told it to stop bullshitting, it replied: "Sorry, you're right, I actually don't know any OpenShell commands, I assumed they would be the same as podman commands". 🤦‍♂️

The Gemini models aren't actually that bad, so I assume what is integrated in Google Workspace is very limited to fit into flat rates of like $10-15 per user for the whole service. And at this point, it isn't very useful.

The subsidized tokens gave people false impression that they can get something as powerful as Claude Code, which costs hundreds of dollars a month if you really use it daily at work, in a $15 monthly Office Suite subscription.

Als Antwort auf Jiří Eischmann

@sesivany @Razemix @michal Best future of google docs? That any Amrican can look what you do (trump his Cloud act and Patriot act), and it is probably sold to other companies too, where you have no idea from what they do with your data. Just avoid american companies if data is stored in the cloud.
Dieser Beitrag wurde bearbeitet. (Freitag, 4. September 2026, 11:59)
Als Antwort auf LibreOffice

blog.documentfoundation.org/bl… Was this blog post written with the help of AI?
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